Shaquille O’Neal’s UoP master’s degree brings out the haters

Shaquille O’Neal received his doctoral degree in education last week. It wasn’t an honorary award — he earned it from Barry University, a private Catholic institution in Florida. It’s an admirable achievement that required lots of hard work, both on campus and off — he took many courses through distance education, but also had presentations and other activities on campus, as in the photo provided by Barry (the other person in the photo is David M. Kopp, Chair of the Organizational Learning and Leadership and Human Resource Development Programs).

Shaq doctorate degree - Shaquille O'Neal attended UoP
Shaquille O’Neal attended UoP and later earned a doctorate degree

But I noticed an interesting thread in the Gawker story about Shaq’s graduation. The entertainer and former basketball star received a master’s degree from the University of Phoenix prior to getting his doctorate from Barry. The Gawker story only mentioned Shaquille O’Neal’s UoP degree in passing, but it brought out a lot of spirited comments, many of them highly critical of University of Phoenix degrees.

MicMutt started off the thread with this comment:

Does “a Master’s degree from University of Phoenix” even mean anything?

A bunch of sarcastic comments followed (“It means your check to the University of Phoenix cleared”, “I hope so, that’s where I received my MD. Surgery rotation was cake”, etc.). But there was a serious response, too:

aaxan:

Lots of companies (and government agencies) pay for their employees to return to school for MBAs and such, and a substantial number of those people end up at UoP. It’s one of the top destinations because a lot of the time the employee just needs those extra letters behind his/her name, and the curriculum isn’t really that different from any other program.

However, one UoP supporter fired back at MicMutt with this:

You know what, if I ran a business I would take a UofP MBA over a BC/Columbia MBA every day of the week. Usually the people taking online classes are doing so because they are already out in the workforce, not everyone had daddy paying their tuition.

Focus on Shaq’s UoP master’s degree highlight concern over UoP standards

From there the conversation turned into a bitter war about privilege, ability, standards, career opportunities, and whether or not UoP degrees are legit. Example:

You know what? I do run a business and, as MicMutt said, a UoP MBA counts for very little. Traditional public and private not-for-profit universities offer online programs, and there are only two reasons someone would choose UoP:
1. Couldn’t get accepted to a program with legitimate admissions criteria;
2. Not sophisticated enough to realize that UoP is among the most expensive choices and has among the worst reputations.
This is not the sort of person I am interested in hiring for anything other than low-level grunt work.

These comments are cruel and unfair to students who put in a lot of work to earn their degrees. However, they do reflect real problems with UoP standards (which are affected by its for-profit mission) and perception in the marketplace. I wrote about this issue six years ago on another blog, and the post attracted more than 100 comments from UoP supporters and critics.

My publishing company counts newer for-profit schools as well as nonprofit educational institutions among its customers, with our LinkedIn book being one of the top sellers for students from both types of schools. It really shouldn’t come as a surprise. Regardless of which school they attend, many grad studentswant to improve their career opportunities. It’s not just about getting a bigger paycheck, but also being able to network with other professionals and finding new job opportunities via LinkedIn’s huge jobs database.

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98 thoughts on “Shaquille O’Neal’s UoP master’s degree brings out the haters

  1. I would like to respond to the University of Phoenix detractors. Various people on the Internet have ridiculed the University of Phoenix (hereafter referred to as UOPX) as a “bullsh*t school” or claimed that UOPX was “raping me on tuition”… Actually, UOPX is just a private online college that happens to be very popular, and for certain good reasons. Because it is private, their tuition is more than a public college such as the University of Cincinnati, from which I hold two undergraduate degrees. However, you get what you pay for. UOPX offers nice advisors who don’t try to deceive you or pressure you into taking too many classes, as happened to me twice at the University of Cincinnati. They also offer personalized tutoring if you feel like you are getting in over your head in any particular course, as happened to me when I started doing college-level accounting. I have found that the bachelor’s degree program that I am completing right now is rigorous enough that it challenges me, enough that it was difficult to keep even a 2.5 GPA at times. As to whether UOPX compares to other online colleges, it is probably middle-of-the-road as far as ranking versus other online schools such as DeVry, Kaplan, Capella, etc. The accreditation and regulatory issues that UOPX once faced are now in the past, and about 85% of employers recently surveyed say that they would consider an online degree from UOPX the same as one from a brick-and-mortar university. As I advance into the second half of my bachelor’s degree, I believe that I have made the right choice for my final undergraduate degree, even if I had to max out my undergraduate loans in order to do it. Let no one tell you that the University of Phoenix is a bad school, because it isn’t.

  2. Adrian,

    As an adjunct professor I suggest that if you’re having trouble maintaining a 2.5 GPA while enrolled with UoP, you may want to reconsider furthering your academic studies. You ought to explore the choices and enroll at your local vocation school.

    • You’re adjunct? Why aren’t you a full time professor? I guess that big time degree is not helping you that much.

    • That’s an unprofessional comment from someone who claims to be an educator. It is clear this student is working hard toward their degree, and you have no idea what other responsibilities they are carrying. Maybe that Assistant Professorship hasn’t materialized because you lack empathy. I’m sorry if I hurt your feelings, but I can’t tolerate bullies.

    • Very nice. Discourage someone who might be juggling 3 or 4 responsibilities from attending college. College isn’t for adults that want to move up in life, no it’s only for rich people’s kids these days. Got it. Thanks for the lesson, professor.

      • Exactly! I’m a parent and I’m finishing the last part of my MBA-HRM with a 3.86 gpa. Let me tell you, UOP is not that simple. The sooner employers recognize the self discipline it takes to get your work done the better. I have dealt with slackers. They either fail or drop out.

        • Steph is SPOT ON! Employers need to recognize the sacrifice and determination to takes to accomplish continued education! The professors that provide the forums are no push-overs. I’ve witnessed my share of drop outs and fault the pressures of that myself! I call it TWO YEARS OF PAIN! 🙂

        • Stephanie,
          I absolutely agree with your comment. I graduated in October 2016 with my B.S in Psychology with a 3.5 g.p.a while being a mother, wife and a full-time employee. This was not an easy task and anyone “downing” UoPx should attempt to pursue a degree which requires discipline no matter the secondary institution you attend. Pursuing an online degree takes a tremendous amount of discipline and time management. What I have gathered from the “nay-sayers” is that they just aren’t college material no matter the institution(s) they have attended. Don’t discourage anyone from furthering their education. To the adjunct professor, they should have taught you how to be nice and to offer words of encouragement. You are never above getting choice words so choose your words wisely. If you have nothing nice to say then just remain silent. No one will miss your negativity.

    • I graduated with a 3.98 GPA Summa Cum Laude, and I would never say such a thing to somebody based on their GPA alone. Perhaps he has alot of real world issues he’s contending with.
      I was combating Chrons disease, I was diagnosed in my junior year, but still managed.

      I think sometimes professors such as yourself lose perspective in regards to the real world and balancing school work, family and a life. However, to tell him that he should not pursue his academic studies further and to just go to vocational school is pretty callous and even a bit smug.

  3. I recently finished my MBA from UoP. I graduated with a 3.86 and I found the course to be challenging, manageable, and just as good as any “brick and mortar” school. I have my degree in Marketing from the University of Maine and I scouted several schools before deciding on UoP, to include UMaine. After talking to a large group of MBA students at UMaine, reviewing the curriculum, I realized the two schools teach the same exact thing. I went and spoke with two other friends, both quite intelligent, who were getting their masters from UoP. They both spoke highly of the school, the staff, and the support.

    After looking around, I choose UoP because it was the most well-established distance education school, had ACBSP accreditation, and the people I talked to spoke highly of it, while the people who went to Umaine did not.

    The school offers the same curriculum as any of MBA program that is not a research based institution, provides the tools to juggle a full-time job and family, and pressures you to be self-accountable. I found my experience at UoP to be challenging and rewarding. The instructors are well-versed in their area of expertise. The grading is done fairly, and their ‘grades’ follow a normal bell curve, which is what you expect out of a non-research based institution. On top of that, their MBA program requires a B average or higher to remain in the program. The school lets a lot of people in their programs but there graduation rates are low. It’s not because the school is not good a good school, it’s because it is challenging. With high acceptance rates, they make money, they are for-profit, but just because the doors open, doesn’t mean everyone is able to walk through. They give people the chance to do the work, if they are not cut out for it, they aren’t cut out for it, and they are kicked out of the program.

    So personally, I had options, I knew their reputation, but I also knew from close friends on what they were really like. You have to look at the whole picture, the reason behind the way things are, to really understand what UoP is. A for-profit school will let a lot of people in. I can’t speak for their undergraduate program; I can speak to their MBA program.

    Their MBA program is great; it is challenging, and is a lot of work. Ask anyone who actually graduated from it. I would recommend it to anyone. I can personally say that I wrote more papers, participated more, and felt that I got a lot more out of this degree than all the people I spoke to who got their MBA from UMAINE, who is AACSB accredited.

    P.S. Mr. Adjunct Professor Craig B, have you taken courses at UoP? If you haven’t, you shouldn’t talk about it.

    • Thank you for your well said response. UOPX is where I currently attend a ground campus MBA program. I also teach part-time and manage a construction company. The MBA program is no cakewalk and I am proud of my 3.68 gpa. It is not a simple task to manage everything and earn a higher degree. It gets irritating to read all the negative garbage about something I am working hard to achieve. UOPX has a high fail rate because it isn’t as simple as just paying for a degree as many believe.

      • I couldn’t help but respond to this thread. First of all the people that attend UOPHX in essence by design have much more knowledge going into the undergrad program. traditional universities cater to young adults participating in absorbing information, without much to contribute, in General. University of Phoenix by nature and structure offers Grad level participation, usually by the depth of knowledge and experience in a particular subject level. as we may all agree colleges are continually bolstering their reputation to attract students. If schools like University of Phoenix begin to gain credibility then these schools loose. All I have heard was propaganda, with no proof of the traditional schools superiority. I challenge schools to provide statistical proof that the education and delivery format at University of Phoenix is inferior.

    • I recieved my MBA from UofP…even though I paid 150k for my undergrad.

      My MBA was one of the best decisions I have ever made. UofP was a great choice for me. I had other options, but I wanted to receive my education online.

      When I graduated, I received a huge pay raise and a rise up the corporate food chain.

    • I graduated with my Masters in Psychology in 2013. The Program was very rigorous. I worked full-time and graduated with excellence. No one gave me anything as I was disciplined and worked hard to succeed. Please stop speaking negative because you will not only tarnish the university’s reputation but the reputation of present and future graduates.

    • I will add to Kurt’s response. I’m no UoP advocate, but during my hunt for a graduate school while maintaining my household income, UoP stood head and shoulders above the rest. They offered the flexibility I needed and more importantly, they demonstrated that they (UoP) wanted to earn my business. I didn’t feel like a number but as a valued student. Now, if I paid more for the attention – so be it. The money was put to good use. Met some superb instructors, whom most were business owners or “influencers” in the community. Attack UoP for being for profit all you want – but NOT the dedicated professionals that provide instruction or the students who put in the sacrifice and studies to EARN their degrees.

  4. I am a single mother and a graduate of UOP’s MBA program. UOP offered me flexibility to care for my child while I earned my graduate degree. Not only do you get more than what you pay for, its up to you to make the most out of the experience. Most of the instructors were amazing. There were a few that left me wondering though. Many of my classmates however, did not have high enough standards. No matter where you go, you still have to prove yourself as a professional and have good habits. I’m proud to say that I graduated with a 3.7 GPA. It wasn’t easy and I appreciate the challenge.

  5. I am receiving a Masters in Information Systems for UOP, I have a BS from a traditional school and this is my first online educational experience. For me, I learn the best when I actually go through the process of doing what it is I am learning. UOP forces you to do that very thing. During my BS the instructors handed out printed outline notes for their lectures for students to follow along with and write additional notes on from the lecture. This was fine to study with for the tests and then most of which were forgotten after the tests. I feel that I have done most if not all of the leg work on learning in the classes at UOP, but that is what is expected in a professional environment. As with any profession, one learns more while working than they did from their studies, or for me that is when it was committed to long term memory. I have yet to have a manager or boss give me a lecture on anything and test me before I was expected to perform the duty, if you can read between the lines then my point should be clear.
    P.S. For Craig (Adjunct Professor) I hope you don’t say the same to your students as far as your comment to Adrian. You are no doubt the type of jerk who probably feels that someone who makes an A average is superior than someone who graduated with a C, but this is not always the case. Some are better with only memorizing for tests and are not able to apply a d*mn thing they learned in a real situation. I had a few instructors while earning my BS degree that would always brag about being straight A students and brag about their PhD. They were terrible clinical instructors because they didn’t know how to apply anything and it showed. Are you teaching just to pat yourself on the back or are you teaching because you like to help people learn? Maybe you should reconsider your value to the teaching profession.

    • Thanks for this post!! I am currently attending UOP and I would say the exact thing! Thanks for the validation.

      Tosha

    • WELL SAID. I went from not being able to read or write,to receiving my GED, to a 4 week Nurses Assistant Training Program, to an Associate Degree in Social Work, to Bachelors for Nursing and working on my Masters. I did not grow up with money and took me many years to work my butt off and save money to further my education. Therefore, screw you Mr. Jerk Professor. It doesn’t matter what fancy degree you have; if you don’t apply it to common sense, then that makes you an educated fool. Shut your mouth. if you don’t have anything encouraging to say to anyone, than don’t say anything at all.

  6. I really hope you people talking great about uop are pigeons, otherwise this is just sad. Show me proof of one job found by a uop degree, in which that degree was required for the job.

    • Bill,

      I have an associates, bachelors, masters, and am working on my doctorate, all in IT from the UoP. My current job required an IT degree, and I aced it. I replaced someone with a bachelors and masters in IT from an Ivy League university, and he was unable to perform the required work. He was fired for his lack of skills. I’m a programmer, web developer, project manager, and my employers feel I do a great job, and so do I.

      My daughter has a bachelors from Texas A&M and an MBA from UoP. She feels UoP was the best experience and the place where she learned the most. She holds an executive position at a Fortune 100 corporation. The year she completed her MBA at UoP, her employer doubled her salary. Five years later, it has quadrupled. She paid off her student loans in the first year after graduation.

      The only thing that matters in the end is how well the graduate performs and if they are happy with the result.

      • I completed an Associates of Arts in Information Technology, now I’ve shifted my focus and am pursuing Bachelors of Science in History. Both are from Phoenix. My shift was because I’ve gone from being the script kid I once was and would like to pursue teaching in a high school setting one day.

        Before I decided to re-enroll for a Bachelor’s however, I called the Independent School District in which I would like to teach-and I asked the administrator point blank what does a Phoenix degree mean. Her response is that it is accredited and that’s all that matters to them, in fact anyone thinking they didn’t get hired in teaching for their degree was probably wrong and just forgot some of the resume packet.

        While I don’t believe Phoenix to be the BEST out there, I highly doubt Harvard has the best program in EVERY subject. To each their own.

        And to that guy who wouldn’t hire someone with a Phoenix degree or just use them as a grunt. You cannot be too great an owner if you’re online ranting a lot. Nor do most managers or owners hire people for a degree title, many are hired for personal knowledge of the applicants abilities or just simply the ability to play the game during an interview.

        • Sorry the above comment is for Beth, I apologize to you Beth. I was extremely excited and impressed with your comment. Way to go. You rock Mama.

    • Bill,

      I graduated with a 4.0 in Business Management and a 3.97 in Business Administration from UOP. I worked very hard and had a wonderfully rewarding learning experience there. I had an instructor from NASA, two successful practicing attorneys as well as a plethora of other amazing instructors. I feel like I had such an advantage learning from people who were working in the fields for which they taught. One of my best friends graduated with both dual bachelor’s and her Master’s degree from UOP. She is currently the Executive Director for the Office on Aging and Veterans Affairs of Orange County and was named one of the most influential people of 2015 by the OC Register. Another of my friends, who graduated with us is currently the Superintendent for Riverside School District in California. I also had the pleasure of walking with Shaq at graduation. There are so many success stories I have personally witnessed about UOP graduates, I could fill pages.

  7. Bill,

    Unless you are becoming a doctor, I don’t think any degree is “required”. You make yourself look ignorant with your comment. Getting a Masters degree or any other education basically shows that you can commit to something and complete it. By getting a degree you are showing the employers that you are marketable and that you have some proof of what you are claiming you know.

    I have a bachelor’s degree in accounting and I am more marketable than an employee with just some ‘bookkeeping’ experience. An MBA student is more valuable than me because they have taken more advanced courses that pertain to management. Now, experience can surpass an MBA degree, however, it will never surpass a bachelor’s degree if it is required for a job posting. A lot of jobs require the bachelor’s degree, I have yet to see a job that “requires” an MBA.

  8. I graduated from UOP with a Masters Degree in Education. I had a better learning experience than during my Bachelors at a brick and mortar. Those persons who make derogatory comments about this school or other online schools should first attend and then let us hear from you. My program was excellent, challenging and I finished with a 3.9 GPA. I completed an Internship at an elementary school and gave lesson plan ideas to my fellow 21 year old interns, who were fresh out of college and did not hold a candle to my life experience or creativity due to my age. I also did not speak to my 3rd graders like they were little baby cildren…I spoke to them like they were people, (unlike my cooperating teacher). I was a mid life career changer, so to the naysayers who make negative comments about online education, enroll and attend and then voice your opinion. One more thing, I was surprised as to the lack of technology skills on the part of many teachers at this school, regardless of age. This was another group of skills I learned during my Masters at UOP

  9. I have attended ASU and obtained a bachelors and later attended University of Phoenix for continued education. IMO some private schools (like UoP) are more innovative and the criteria and curriculum was as difficult if not more difficult while attending UoP. Universities are popular because they have a market dominance and sports teams so people believe they are better, however; it would have been much easier to skate by at ASU than UoP

  10. I received my undergraduate degree in nursing and am currently in the masters of nursing (MSN)program at UOP. I received my ASN from “brick and mortar” college. UOP have “ground” classes that I attend weekly as well as on line courses. I find the courses challenging and the reading extensive. I have a very close friend who has his EdD, PhD, and MD degree. He was associate dean of science at Barry university and help founded a private college for nurse anesthetist. All of his schooling was done a brick and mortar. I had him review the MSN program and he believed the program courses were challenging and approate for a master program

  11. Sorry, did not mean to transmit this message. Still had more to write: Challenging and appropriate for a master program. I believe for my self, that the extra letters behind my name will help me achieve my goal in nursing education. I currently work adjunct for a private college (Jersey College) total of five campuses between New Jersey and Florida. The program chair received her MSN/Ed from UOP. I have also spent 25 years as a nurse and a total of 28 years in the health field. At my age and years in nursing, potential employers are assessing my work experience and expertise in nursing, more than what school I went too. Especially when there is a nursing shortage. I believe you make out what you want from any school. If you put in the time and energy required to achieve a higher education from UOP or any other college it will pay off. College is difficult and not everyone can put in the time or hours that is required to pass all classes. As we get older and our schedule is full. School like UOP help people in achieving his or her goals, where otherwise would be impossible to obtain a degree. If you had class to attend all week and during hours that effect work and family makes it more difficult in achieving ones goals.

  12. STOP CALLING IT UOP. UOP = University of the Pacific. STOP taking away from people who attend a REAL school by using the acronym for a fake ass college. Thanks.

    • That is correct, UoP is University of the Pacific. Pity the rest of your comment is as uneducated as you demonstrate yourself to be.

    • Stop being a forum troll Roland, your School was ranked below University of Phoenix by 50 schools at 110, where University of Phoenix was ranked 60th. As for your comment about UOP what about University of Portland, they ranked 8th or University of Potomac, they ranked near University of the Pacific, on the bottom of the list. Before you start throwing stones you might want to verify your facts.

    • I’m beginning to think Harvard.edu doesn’t have very good moderators to allow you to use ‘fake ass college’. You seem very passionate about Pacific… That’s great. How is University of the Pacific UOP instead of UOTP?… Seems they forgot something there. Just my useless 2 cents.

      I have a task for you, I would like you to attend UOP(X)? Get a scholarship or something so you’re not paying for it… Try some of the training and that way you can attest to the rest of us how fake it is. I could’ve swore there was a difference between a college and university. Oh well you know better than me, I just went to that fake ass university UOP in Phoenix AZ.

  13. I received both my bachelors and masters degrees from UOP about 7 years ago, and would highly recommend the university. Unlike traditional universities, the professors you interact with have real world experience in their field of study, and the students you learn with are from around the country vs people within the same region as yourself. Why is this important? It provides you with diversity of thought, engaging your mind in a much more meaningful manner than if you attended a traditional school with professors who have been doing the same thing for the last 20-30 years. However, this style of learning is not for everyone. In order to get your degree, you have to be very self-motivated. Unlike traditional universities, you manage your own time, and for a lot of people, that can be very challenging. To a potential employer, it is an asset.

    Does it really matter if you achieved your higher learning from a private institution like UOP, or a traditional brick and mortar institution? It really depends on the person. If you are working full time in a challenging job, then a university like UOP might be for you. If you have time to burn and cannot be self-motivated, then a more traditional approach might be the way to go.

    Finally @ Roland, do you notice the maturity level difference between your post and those above it?

  14. I beg to differ with all of the Pheonix graduates. I attended “brick and mortar” colleges and took traditional, online, and hybrid courses. I completed my Master’s with roughly 30 of 36 hours completed online. I also worked full time during both undergrad and graduate studies. I do not think anyone with a “Pheonix” degree is equivalent to anyone with a traditional regionally accredited degree. I wouldn’t hire anyone with a Pheonix degree. My first question would be, why didn’t you opt for a local university with a distance education program verses an “all online for profit” school?

    • Oh gee, probably because not everyone is as priveleged to do so. Some people have diseases that make juggling work and going to school. Some people don’t have their daddies and mommies pay for their…anything, actually. Some people are on their own, and some people just simply want to learn for the sake of learning.

      • Hayden, has no legitimate grounds for his comments – other than personal prejudice. He’s a “band-wagoner” and has no – absolutely no proof to substantiate the poison he’s spewing. He is directing his “fuel” at the hardworking student and dismissing the integrity, leadership and pride of the professors. Obtuse.

        All the best!
        CPO, USN/RET/Submarines

    • Why wouldn’t you hire anyone with a UOP degree? Are you making this determination based on what others are saying or do you have an actual basis for this decision? As a UOP graduate, and one who has attended and graduated from several brick and mortar colleges and universities, UOP is the real deal. In order to graduate from UOP one must be a self-starter and self-motivated. In addition, in order to be successful at UOP one must be well versed in technology, a solid writer and critical reader. I would hire a UOP graduate without any hesitation.

    • Hayden in response I would likely ask you why you attended a brick and mortar installation? It’s likely our answers are similar if not in unison-it was the one I knew about when looking into colleges.

    • I don’t typically like to read nor participate in these “bash the topic” threads, however, there appears to be some “miss informed” ideals at play here.

      1) University of Phoenix is a legitimate “brick and mortar” school. “UNIVERSITY OF PHOENIX”, not “only online trolls of Phoenix”
      (to assist the lazy and/or underachievers, please check this “PHYSICAL building”) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Phoenix_Stadium,
      and
      University Phoenix Main Campus
      1625 West Fountainhead Parkway
      Tempe AZ 85282

      2) University of Phoenix (UofPH) has in-class, brick an mortar classes, online AND hybrid classes.

      3) UoPH is one of the first programs in the country to provide “alternative” types of education for a working professional (outside of night schools often deemed fly-by-night schools). So using this analogy the UofPH dissenter would have to publicly state following auto manufactures are total crap – Ford, Mercedes, and Ferrari (just to name a few). It’s call innovation, look into it (Yes, another innovation by a Gentleman named David Spade)

      4) Put your superior degrees to work here, If the model was so wrong why are Ivy league schools copying it? Was it a catastrophic failure? It’s obvious that ECON or Marketing 101 wasn’t taught at brick and mortar school of the UofPH dissenter. Supply and Demand. They copy it because it works (and because their lack of innovation and small “exclusive” brand can only net a small return by comparison).

      5) Exclusive/Political academic practices from “brick and mortar.” It’s really dumb to think the elite have to maintain a 3.x – 4.0 This simply isn’t the case when Daddy donates to the new building/wing/sports team/etc. (need an example? G.W. Bush – Yale University 1968 – GPA roughly 2.x. Do you know anyone that can get IN to Yale with a 2.x, much less stay there for more than 2 (quarters/semesters). Again…just research, something taught at UofPH. Do they not teach that elusive concept “research” at brick and mortar?

      6) Convenience. As eluded to earlier, it is more convenient to get a degree anytime, anywhere. If you OWN any apple device, you can shut the hell up here, as you have no argument. (period, in case you missed it)

      7) Let’s use logic. A school must pass rigorous standards to be accredited. Accreditation is a fairly rigorous/strict standard. UofPH is accredited. Ergo, UofPH had to adhere to and pass rigorous accreditation standards for both classes and curriculum. (It’s just simply logic, try it.)

      8) UofPH prepares their students for a global economy in ways brick and mortar never could. UofPH require group projects and participation in every class (or nearly). Each group will consist of people in all stages and walks of life. Here is the difference: UofPH also has students in other time zones, in other cultures, sometimes even speaking different languages that all have to come together using all available technologies to complete the required tasks AND get graded AND peer reviewed (also part of your grade), so that slackers can’t easily skate. (for non-English majors, that was an intentional run-on sentence.) No brick and mortar education can prepare a student for that very real 21st Century Global economy with diverse locations/cultures/times/time zones if you all meet on Thursday’s morning, in class, after stopping to get your morning Starbucks across the street from Walmart, and the Apple-bee’s where you all ate at the night before to help “work on the project.” Don’t get me wrong, face time matters, but those luxuries are quickly evaporating with the state of the terrorist world.

      9) On that point and lastly, for all of the safety nuts — It’s pretty hard to have “virtual” gun crazed assassins (Electronic Games excluded) in online classes.

      Try using your brain, rather than “go red” or “go blue”

    • I have 2 masters degrees – MS at a regular institution and MBA at UOPX. If someone doesn’t hire me because they see my UOPX degree, then I’m not missing out on that company. I wouldn’t want to be in a company that values labels more than a complete life experience. In my humble opinion, those kinds of companies are shortsighted and doesn’t have room for diversity. I worked hard for both of my degrees and a blog post can’t take that away from me.

    • You may want to consider not hiring any one that can’t spell “Pheonix”. The red line under the misspelled word in an indication that you spelled it wrong. Yes, you the one with the “brick and mortar” degree.

    • This is an easy one, I attended because the only other college in the area (Arkansas SU) played with my admission (even though it was completely paid for by the VA). I was treated with a lot of disrespect, the staff would not answer the phones, they got smart with me when they finally answered, fired the professor over the program I wanted to go in under and blamed him even though he was the only one I could reach/ speak with (the only one with home training). Don’t get me wrong I’m a vet, I’m immune to hurt feelings but I want you to understand that the closest VA is 80 miles from me (so it’s 80 miles there and back). I had to go through every step over again to get Voc Rehab clearance again under a new program (took months to get it the first time, driving 80 miles back and forth). They set me back months and a lot of money a recently medically retired vet didn’t have. By the way the UOP didn’t give me one problem , so to rap it up I would say because I didn’t have the time or money to play with other people because I already worked for my education.

    • But… it is not an all-online school. That is a misinformed comment. University of Phoenix was the first school to offer the online modality. It became very popular for the working adult. I would not want to work for your organization and I have degrees from both brick and mortar and University of Phoenix. People who think like this will get left behind in this new age of learning.

  15. Fyi if you graduated from UofP no need to tell us how proud you are. The fact you wasted the money you did on such a joke of an institution already makes it clear that you will have to pretend it is a real school to save face for the rest of your lives.

    Uofp < school with standards for admissions beyond "do you have the money to pay for it"

    • Leo, I ask you as a history major working on his Bachelors and an IT degree in my Associates of Arts, what will another institution offer me over phoenix? My last class actually has me signed up for a free voucher to take a CompTIA test. Will Harvard pay for such a examination? When you work in the IT world having a degree doesn’t mean all that much buddy, I know you like to believe a Masters could mean something but everything changes in an instant. Darknet and Anon’s have changed the way we view the web in a matter of years. Not to mention this ‘cloud’ that is being taught has been around for YEARS… It’s called the INTERNET :/. Will brick and mortar education force you to pass CompTIA or Cisco examinations? Hell no. Studying will, pure and simple studying.

      To my history bachelors, it is history-you read a book and absorb the knowledge in it. Rather it’s Harvard giving you the test or Phoenix it really doesn’t matter as long as you know it?

      You would probably say Yale is above Phoenix yet George Bush Jr. Graduated there, hmmm. I’m not saying he wasn’t a great president but he performed terribly on stage in his speeches… One would assume Monkey’s were writing his script for him. But Yale it was…

  16. I’m a graduate of University of Phoenix’s IT program, and I will not claim that UOP stacks up against every other institution. However, I put a great deal of effort into my studies by challenging myself to extract every drop of knowledge I could from my courses and to dig deeper. I do not believe that my UOP education was a waste of time and money, and I prefer to believe the old adage that you get out of education what you put into it. I’ve always believed that drive and determination are much more important factors.

    Having a degree from UOP has not been a hindrance. Rather, it has become a complimentary tool in my tool bag. I’m certain that I would not have been able to obtain several positions without a bachelors’ degree, and I’ve never gotten the impression that my UOP degree has been issue. Also, it doesn’t hurt that I have 15+ years of experience in IT. Frankly, I could not care less what people think of my UOP degree, as I’m comfortable enough in my own skin.

  17. I received my MBA from Belhaven University (small Christian private college). However, I did get my bachelors from University of Phoenix. I attended face to face classes. I obtained my MBA from a different school for 3 reasons: 1) expand my education discipline from another school. 2) wanted a Christian influence to study the servant leadership style based on the bible teachings. And 3) distant myself from the negative connotations University of Pheonix presented as a diploma mill. As with anything, what you put into is what you will get out of it. After getting my undergraduate degree from UoP, I was able to maintain my salary. After getting my MBA, I received a total of 55k more annually since graduating in 2007. I am an International Payroll Manager with a total of 18 years experience. I am an expert in my field. Every executive I have reported to over the past 10 years have all said it doesn’t matter where the degree is from as long as you have it. Proving your abilities, network, and who you know still out weighs the origination of your degree. How well we

  18. How well we play the game of life is what really it amounts to in education. Getting a degree doesn’t mean you have solid work ethics. I know several people from the best colleges in the country, I would not want them on my team because they. Believe they are entitled to more money without having to work for it. Unfortunately, some of those people have obtain theirs degrees from UoP like all of those other more reputable schools. Take these comments as you will. I can say, I don’t have to worry about any of you all because I have a very specialized skill and that skill was developed before I went back to school. If you work hard enough, you will prevail. It is so much easier when you have GOD in your corner. God bless everyone and wish you all the best as your pride continues to overshadow your intentions. Show by actions rather than words is what it boils down to!! 🙂

  19. By the way, my MBA from the private Christian college was more expensive than if I went to UoP. The undergraduate programs from the small private college is more expensive than UoP. So, whomever wrote that only ignorant people select UoP. If you focus on the persons work ethics, prove a skills, and other characteristics (that can’t be taught in school), you might find some really great people that you would want on your team. Usually the ones that have the most negative things to say, are the ones that can’t back up their own degree or more importantly their ability to perform at an expected level from their own college. I wonder if the real issue on this blog is around the adult learning methods, which has infringe on the economics of the traditional schools. Meaning, “these non traditional schools are gaining market shares”. Because the largest market for students is the adult learner and the traditional colleges are slow to compete to gain the market shares. After all, it is about money which is what everyone keeps saying regarding the “for profit”. At the end of the day, we are responsible for ourselves, our successes, and. NOT any college piece of paper. So , let’s stop debating and prove it out on the field, as they say in sports. Survival of the fittest or may the best man win (that job)!!

  20. The point in all of this is that people who go to university of Phoenix fail to realize the relevance of where your degree is from in today’s market place. It’s a new age and the whole “it doesn’t matter where your degree is from” doesn’t fly. If you want a really good high paying job, uofp isn’t cutting it. As some have mentioned in this thread your resume wouldn’t even get considered in better jobs. Whether it’s the same curriculum as some said,I don’t know, but not in the eyes of H.R. If you want an average middle class job uofp is maybe going to get you there. You have to remember that online degrees are new to society and most people in higher positions attained their degrees at universities, which started the criticism of online degrees. That being said, after all the bad reviews and “scam” alerts for uofp, I would never want a degree from them.

  21. Hello all; I’m a current Doctor of Management student at UoPX. My previous education has been an undergraduate degree, grad degree, as well as an MBA, all from brick and mortar schools that each had some degree of distance learning. My MS in Information Management, in fact, was from Syracuse U., and is ranked in the top three for that particular program nationwide; that degree was largely online, with occasional onsite residencies like UoPX. So, I think it’s fair to say that an online degree from a reputable school is just as good as one earned on the ground. This should be evident to anyone that does a little research online, as so many brick and mortar schools now offer this learning modality.

    I can’t speak to the MBA and other grad programs, or the undergrad programs, regarding their rigor or value as a student. As a hiring manager, I’d be much more inclined to look at an applicant’s overall experience, rather than the school from which they graduated. I think there may be a bit of a bias toward a more prestigious school if I was interviewing a candidate with no experience, right out of undergrad. In that case, I’d likely have a bias toward a grad from an Ivy, or other top-rated school as opposed from a tier-2 or tier-3 institution…provided the resumes were identical otherwise, and I had to choose. Aside from that, the interview and experience/references would hold much more sway for me. There are those hiring managers that are school snobs, and only hire from prestigious institutions. In that case, unless you’re from a top school, you’re sunk anyway.

    In the case of the doctorate, my program is what’s known as a professional taught doctorate (PTD), (it’s abbreviated D.M. for doctor of management) and is in the same class of terminal degrees as the Ed.D. (doctor of education), Psy.D. (doctor of psychology), D.B.A. (doctor of business administration), D.S.W. (doctor of social work), D.N.P. (doctor of nursing practice), D.P.T. (doctor of physical therapy), and M.D. (doctor of medicine), in that it’s designed for working professionals who desire to leverage their degree in an applied versus theoretical manner, and who are not interested in pursuing a tenure-track professorship at a research university. These degrees still have dissertations, and quite extensive ones at that, but have more classroom time and less research. “Less” is somewhat relative, however, since even a PTD dissertation could span two years and run in the several hundreds of pages, with the entire program lasting 3.5-7 years. A Ph.D. is, by definition, research driven, and some Ph.D. candidates may only engage in a small number of credit-courses, with the balance of a five (or more) year program dedicated to research and teaching. For me, as a 19 year veteran of the IT industry, a DM was a much better choice to use in my profession; if I was pursuing this degree purely for the purposes of vanity, the Ph.D. is much more widely understood as “doctor.”

    The program thus far (I’m 2.5 years in, with an expected graduation in summer of 2016), has been very informative and by no means an easy process. Some classes, particularly those in the IT domain, have been easier than others, such as qualitative methods and philosophy. The professors have been solid, and what you’d expect from any college experience…10% are exceptional, 80% are average to above average, and 10% could use some improvement. Pretty much a standard bell curve, for the most part. As an online program, there’s no question that you get from the program what you put into the program. It’s possible to get by with low to mid B’s, and remain in good standing, with a reasonable amount of effort, just as with most schools. For those that strive to keep an average at 3.5, or above, it requires the next level of dedication and effort. My previous two grad degrees were completed with GPA’s between 3.5 and 3.85, and I’m currently at a 3.8 at UoPX with just over 50% of my credits completed. The information I’ve learned has been helpful in my job, and I feel as if I’m getting good value from the program. The cost is about $750/credit, which is actually very reasonable for doctorate-level education. It’s not difficult to pay twice that, or more, even at a tier-2 school.

    In terms of UoPX’s admissions and overall strategy, yes, they’re a for-profit school. Yes, I think they do admit people to the doctoral program that probably aren’t suited to a doctoral level of effort. These people hang on as long as they can, and then they fall by the wayside. This is not uncommon in doctoral programs, however, and completion rates around 50% are common. For a PTD, however, students avoid many of the pitfalls of a traditional Ph.D. programs (see the link at the end of this post) in terms of their career aspirations.

    So, while I do agree that UoPX could use some work in their reputation department, I feel the level of education I’m receiving is good; not as good as if I’d gone to Harvard, but on-par with many middle-of-the-road schools, both for and non-profit. The opportunity to complete a doctorate primarily online, with once-per-year residencies is very convenient for fulltime professionals, and the degree provides a good balance between classes and research. Overall, I’m happy with my choice.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/12-reasons-not-to-get-a-phd/

    -Jason

  22. So let me make sure I understand some of the prejudice here. UOPX is a bad choice for an Adult that had to drop out of high school, due to no fault of their own, received a GED, then tried to enroll at a B&M school, only to be told they do not meet the “strict” admissions guidelines for said school?
    That being said, the same person does enroll, attend, and graduate from UOPX with an undergrad, returns to the exact same school that did not want them in the first place and they accept into a graduate program at he same school that snubbed them in the first place!
    Yes that describes me. This is exactly what happened to me.
    The school that accpeted me after I finished at UOPX is #5 and #18 on this list: http://www.princetonreview.com/top-entrepreneurial-press-release.aspx.
    So Leo, Hayden, and Craig B., What a heaping load of !@#$. You either:
    a) Never attempted a class at UOPX
    b) Made the attempt and failed miserably because you couldn’t keep with pace.
    c) Lost out to a graduate to UPOX in the job market
    or
    d)Are the biggest bunch of snobs, bigots, whatever you want to call it.
    UOPX is fully accredited through the Higher Learning Commission (one of the six regional accrediting agencies) the same agency that accredits, Arizona State, Univ. of Arizona, NAU, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Kent State, The Ohio State, and numerous other “Brick and Mortar” research institutes. All of them have the exact same accreditation as UOPX! The problem is with the stuffed shirt, snobs at these and other schools. They always ask and complain “What research has UOPX done?” If you spend you whole adult life learning about a tiny slice in specific field you can be PhD. You can then turn around and teach in the field you learned in, without having any practical experience at all. I call this “diluting the curriculum!” There is also a adage for these pompous people: “Those who can do (producers), those who can’t teach(Users or leeches really). The folks that facilitate at UOPX have actual real world experience in the subject they teach. So instead of teaching what some “theorist” thinks the world needs to know, they teach what actually has been tried and found successful in real world applications, not some pointless survey done within a very controlled environment. People want to complain about the dollars spent on UOPX? Complain about the life sucking leeches that are tenured. All they do is pass their ideology on and never really do anything else except corrupt minds and explain to everyhow how the government owes them something even though they never really contribute.

  23. I think it’s funny that people want to ridicule some one for where they graduated college from. I’ll tell you that after 10 years in the work force at a consulting firm I promise that we don’t care where you went to college. It’s about a body of work, and being a well rounded individual. If you went to Phoenix while you were getting valuable work experience (like me) you will be happy with what your Phoenix degree offers. When some one says they would never higher a Phoenix grad I can pretty much say they don’t do the hiring for anyone. No boss is going tolerate an interview which is that narrow minded. In a lot of cases it shows going the extra mile to better yourself while working full time and employers do take stock in that.

  24. Let’s see, I spent $120K on my bachelors, $110K on my first masters, oh yes…only $20k for a second masters and my PhD… Kinda kicking myself in the A$$ for spending $230K at a private U and an Ivy League U. You have to remember guys, people make institutions, rules, standards, which influence perceptions…all of this was made up…UofP is no different than any other U. They take your money to evaluate you…it’s just not as expensive; and they have a physical campus that has been accredited since ’78. Bottom line is you don’t have to shell out hundreds of thousands of dollars to get the same standard.

  25. Working for the Department of Justice and Homeland Security for 19 years and 7 years in private sector. I have hired many Harvard, Stanford, and other ivy league attorneys. Many of their superiors graduated from online schools like UOP. It really does not make a difference of where you graduate when landing a job. Its what you have done with it that matters.

    Yes, ivy league universities stand out in a resume. But so does having a degree from a credited college coupled with experience (foreign service).

    Everyone has their bias, but just ask those unemployed brick and mortar applicants with no experience why they are not selected. Personally speaking to those online grads, they have the experience but required the graduate level degrees to make upper management (many with families). Its impressive how they balance the two. As an alumni from Berkeley / USF it was hard landing a job with no experience, but after working my way up it was worth it.

    Again, as a hiring official for many years, it really makes no difference.

  26. I received an MBA from UOP in 2010 after getting my BA from a traditional school in Florida. I choose UOP because I had been out of work for 5 years and really did not feel comfortable sitting for the GMAT to apply to UCF. To be honest, I would be lying if I said UOP stacked up to the my brick and mortar school. In the brick and mortar, I had a rigorous diverse curriculum led by great instructors. They were entertaining and engaging. I wrote papers, completed projects, worked in teams, and studied hard for multiple exams every semester. My favorite experience was my internship in the HR department of MetLife my last semester. I still remember many of the things I learned WHR pursuing my BA 10 years later. UOP was a joke by comparison. UOPs curriculum consists of papers and team projects. They overuse the team learning. Every class has 1 or more team projects. We had 1 person in our team who wrote no better than a middle school student. She had no understanding of APA format. I heard many horror stories of people forced to carry bad team members. With no admission standards other than a BA, I can see how this could become a problem. There is no real world experience at UOP. We worked on fictional companies. I had a few good instructors but the majority were terrible. Its one thing to know something but its another to be able to teach it to someone else. Most of my courses were very boring. My program had no quizzes or exams. I don’t believe tests are the only measure of knowledge but I do feel some testing is a part of a well rounded education. I feel my UOP experience was more about getting through it than learning. I don’t think my UOP degree will help me get a decent paying job. I lost my job 2 years after finishing my MBÀ. I now work part time making $12.50 an hour when I use to be on salary for $45,000 with just a my BA. I heavily regret my UOP degree and wish I had put in the work to prep for the GMAT and apply to UCF. I would have a respected degree and would be in less debt than I am now. Hindsight is 20 20. I apologize for any spelling or weird text. Writing this on my cell phone with a very small keyboard.

  27. I would absolutely like to defend University of Phoenix. I currently work the world leader in automotive engineering equipment, operating out of 100 plus countries, and growing daily. The Board of Directors for the organization I work for have degrees from Princeton, Berkley, and Harvard, and have all made me feel that my degree is worth something to them, and has reimbursed fifty percent of my tuition since my associates program. I am just finishing my MBA with a concentration in accountancy, and not long after receiving my BS in accounting, I was promoted to one of their main accounting positions, trusting me to see highly confidential financial information of the organization, since the organization I work for is privately owned.

    I would also like to mention I am in line to step into my boss’s position as accounting supervisor over general ledger accounts when he retires in a couple years after over 40 years on the job.

    Having said all of the above, I think it is absolutely ridiculous to criticize people attempting to better themselves. Also FYI, I could have went to a more traditional school, and chose UOP due to the outstanding assistance from the enrollment counselors, and constant one on one guidance from my academic and financial counselors. I would also like to mention my employer would not reimburse tuition for Kaplan University for a colleague of mine, but did for UOP due to their proper accreditation. Two of my boss’s, one the Treasurer and Controller, the other the VP of Finance, wanted me for the job, and makes my degree feel valued.

    Therefore, all of you people out there ragging on a school solely off the bias comments, and negative connotations you see associated with the school are the most ignorant on this thread. You want to reference intelligence, your displaying such a low level of intelligence, and class calling UOP a fake ass school, wow you sound uneducated and unprofessional using that language. For those of you stating you would not hire someone just because they went to University of Phoenix, I would suggest your HR department let you go as you are a liability to the company for a discrimination lawsuit, and if you had any intelligence whatsoever, or even knew any of the laws and regulations set into place, you would not even openly admit to discriminating against applicants.

    My cousin also rags on University of Phoenix, and do you know why? It is due to her slacking, and that she flunked out. It is obvious, anyone ragging on University of Phoenix solely on the basis of it being a for profit organization are the ignorant and uneducated ones. Don’t believe everything you read ignoramus’s, or were you not taught how to identify a credible source for research? I was taught this at University of Phoenix even-though according to you I must not have learned anything at all. I guess that is also why so many traditional schools now offer distance learning to complete with University of Phoenix, why would they do this, if University of Phoenix was a fake school. I would just like to reiterate once more, all of you low lives ragging on people working hard to support their families while bettering themselves should be ashamed of yourself, and I would not hire you based on your unprofessional-ism, linear way of thinking, and ignorance!

  28. I would also like to further mention Olivia, having a degree does not guarantee you a job, but your experience, professionalism, and personal ability to sell yourself, and prove you are worth something to the organization is what gets you the job. Please do not blame UOP of your low paying job,especially since you stated you do hold a BA from a traditional school, this should prove your degree from UOP of not the only thing holding you back. I graduated from only University of Phoenix Associates, Bachelors, and now MBA and make over twice the amount you do and I am only in my twenties. Maybe focus more on what you can give personally, and not how a degree can sell you and do all the work for you in landing a good job. Good luck to you!

  29. Wow, the level of ignorance and youth is so apparent within these posts. I can determine easily that so many responders have yet to experience a true career interview. Let me help you. You are presenting yourself as a package to employers and if you think you will solely secure jobs based on where you attended school, please understand that this is extremely shortsighted. Be prepared to discuss your experience, not your school. If I’m interviewing you for a management position and you want to impress me with your school that you attended, you unfortunately will lose out on a job opportunity. I attended a traditional university for my undergrad and UOP for grad school. Many of you need to understand that there were not many choices to continuing education online in the early 2000’s. I researched my options for post graduate study at the time and UOP, for me, was the best option. At the time of this decision, I was traveling extensively, building what I know now was my foundation of experience that would be the beginning of my career. Hindsight, 16 years later, I wouldn’t change a thing. Throughout my many organizations I have been affiliated with, I found myself working with local university staff on a scholarship program. To this extent, I worked with one professor that was

  30. Also adjunct faculty at UOP. He explained to me how tough it was for him to secure his UOP teaching opportunity and he was impressed with the curriculum. Always good to see and know there are different perspectives.

  31. I recommend getting your undergraduate at a brick and mortar, you can go to UOP after that and use the excuse that the curriculum was just as challenging at UOP. I’m an engineer and as long as your BS is from an ABET accredited school UOP will ‘fly’ after that!!

  32. Regardless if you are earning your degree online, traditionally or in a hybrid format, all learning institutions use a digital learning management system: Blackboard, MOODLE, CANVAS etc…
    I have read most of the posts regarding this topic, and truly the only difference between an online and traditional school is the lecture. And we all know that most students if given the option would not attend an in-person lecture anyway. The other difference is learning is a a self-directed process, meaning you come to class or log on to a learning management system ready to get something out of the course you signed up for.

    To be honest, I am sick of signing up for traditional courses with allegedly college ready students who do not know how to use the computer(i.e. a learning management system, Microsoft office) or think critically beyond their own hand.

    So the talk about the online degree versus a traditional degree is irrelevant. Education in the 21 century is about flexibility, people have busy lives and should not have to stop working to go back to school. The American education system is broken and archaic and highly political.

  33. Omg! I never KNEW how easy it is to be a nurse im going to get my msn from uofp!!! Ill just get my mom to do it for me or pay some one to do it, then I will get a sweet ass job and take care of your hospitalized loved ones!! Whoop whoop!! Maybe ill go for nurse cardiology, or just go straight to being a doctor!! I cant WAIT to perform surgery on you!!! I mean everyone says the education is the same and so many people back up uofp so I really hope they show their true dedication and sign up to allow me to be thier doctor!! 🙂

    • Oh, GiGi. How cute! Let me educate you a little bit on how health care licenses work. Yes, if you want to pay for tuition and then pay for someone to take classes under your name, go for it! Seems like a lot of money, but that’s your choice. However, when you have to sit for the licensing exam so that you actually can do that ‘surgery’ you so cleverly spoke about, you can’t have your hired student do it for you. They actually make you prove you are who you say you are. You have to show them picture IDs and everything. Go figure!

      So, your master plan of hiring someone to do your education for you has now backfired. You are not only out a copious amount of money, but also the opportunity to learn. You have paid for someone else’s education, and they will probably move right into that position your witty little comment spoke about.

      Oh, and here’s a fun fact: Your IQ will not take you as far as your social and emotional intelligence. Proof you ask? Remember the Unabomber? Remember how he taught at Harvard? Now, remember how he blew people up? Yeah, very high IQ. Very poor social skills. Something to ponder.

  34. I got an MBA at UOPHOENIX. I was 42 with 5 kids. I also taught there. When it came to Telecommunications and networking, there was no professor at any Ivy league college that knew more than I did on the topic. I taught the daily networking issues and solutions that no college knew like I did.30 years in the industry, I knew the history. I was a pro on the front lines. As far as my MBA, I spent 20-25 hours per week doing the work and earning it. I knew a Harvard MBA who reported to me that had no common sense and no leadership skills. It is more the individual than the school. Ambition, experience, and common sense cannot be taught.

  35. To gigi,

    Do you know what they call the person with the lowest GPA in the Harvard Doctor of Medicine graduating class? That’s right…Doctor.

    Do you know what they call the person with the lowest GPA that attends the brick and mortar school and is in the nursing graduating class? That’s right…Nurse.

    Now, let me explain the difference to you just because you are evidently really, really mad about this. It doesn’t matter the school from which a Doctor or Nurse graduates, they cannot legally practice without a State License.

    A Masters in Nursing allows greater potential to work on the healthcare administrative side of healthcare instead of the bedside side of healthcare.

    Apparently from your post and your wealth of knowledge on the subject, you already knew this.

  36. I would like to take this moment to look at, and appreciate, the comment by Kahlil Northcross:

    “I am a u of p alumni and proud pf it. Gteat school”

    I can understand common gramatic and spelling errors such as alumni, instead of the correct use of alumnus or alumna. The rest of the statement speaks for itself.

  37. Hey Ghost before you call out someone else for spelling errors might want to check yourself, pretty sure grammatic has two m’s

  38. I like University of Phoenix* (so sorry University of the Pacific for using UoP, like ever!). I went to community college here in souther Cali. The classes are 16 weeks long. What!!??!?! My buddies going to State U’s (taking the same classes I took at the CC) complain even though their semesters are shorter than CC semesters, and…….they need me to tutor them! University of Phoenix is straight to business. No joke. I’m tired of people talking down that school. I will go to a State University when I really, really, really, want to WASTE MY TIME. Face it people, our real course work was done when we took our Gen Eds (Sociology, Psychology, Statistics, World History, Anthropology, Humanities). You apply that shit to how you treat people, as well as animals. Fix the world people!

  39. All the bashing is pointless, and I suspect those that say you wouldnt hire someone with a phoenix degree isnt actually in a position to hire anyone. I work at ASU in HR and am the lead HR systems support analyst for the university. I can go to school for nearly free here and I chose to get a Phoenix MBA over an ASU MBA simply because I enjoy the environment of the class structure over what ASU offers. As an HR professional I can tell you with 100% certainty we hire professionals with UoP credentials with no discrimination even over our own. You CANT do that and be in legal compliance. If the candidate meets the minimum qualifications for the position and is the top candidate, they are chosen. Its that simple.

  40. The UOP programs are not cake walks. Think about his for a moment. Statistics happens to be one of the hardest classes most students take in any education setting. At UOP its crammed into 5 or 6 weeks depending in what program. Compared to traditional programs the same class tenure is months long. I truly hated the subject but in my MBA program I learned to respect it and later loved it. Here is why, They call him Doctor Dot out of Woodland Hills, California. He truly taught us the subject, he taught us real life experience because he perform statistics daily in his professional career. My eyes were wide open. I departed the class with an A- and confident I could perform any statistical challenge placed before me in the real world. I know for a fact UOP challenge my entire MBA class group. We faced deaths in families, marriages, divorces, births, lost jobs to new jobs ect.. not easy. As a group we endured the countless chapters of reading requirements, not to mention what seems like hundreds of papers written and I can’t forget this one, how about the relentless constant presentations. UOP in my opinion prepares their students for real world settings. I can’t say what another college or university does is good or bad, up to or below the standard. But I did witness many of my classmate accelerated in their chosen career fields because MBA program we completed. I know many who are easily making well into the 6 digit income area’s and even some 7 figure earners. Never judge a book by it’s cover, always open it up and get “Eyes Wide Open” first. Yes I am a Phoenix

  41. Hello all. Just to level-set, I have a BA from a NJ state university, a grad degree from Syracuse University earned through a hybrid on-campus/online program, and an MBA from a private (small) brick and mortar university. I’m currently in my third year of a Doctor of Management program at UOPX. I’ve been in the IT industry for 20 years and currently serve in a IT Director’s position at an Ivy League institution.

    I can’t comment on the undergraduate or graduate level programs at UOPX, as the doctorate is my only experience. Thus far, the program has been rigorous, and I’ve learned a lot. Some classes are easier than others, some professors are better than others, and I definitely feel I extract from the program a proportional benefit to what I contribute to the program. While the workload is heavier in a doctoral program, I would report that my level of satisfaction with the professors and organization is the same as my satisfaction with my previous “traditional” schools. I’ve had no major problems, though (just as I had to do with other brick-and-mortar institutions I’ve attended) I’ve had to be persistent with the administrative staff to resolve a few relatively minor scheduling and financial issues. I do have the benefit of requiring only a small amount of financial aid assistance, as my employer has a generous tuition reimbursement program, and I’ve made up some of the rest out of pocket. I know there have been some complaints about how UOPX handles their financial aid. My recommendation there is to manage your funds on your own, to ensure they are applied when and for what classes you desire.

    My goal is not to pursue a professorship at a research university, but rather to continue my career in my field based on my expanded education, as well as teach, author, and consult. In this career path, the doctorate is helpful, but certainly not required. It is for this reason I chose a practitioner-focused doctorate, the DM, rather than a PhD. The practitioner doctorates, such as the Doctor of Business Administration (DBA), Doctor of Psychology (PsyD), Doctor of Education (EdD), Doctor of Health Administration (DHA), and Doctor of Nursing Practice (DNP) are focused on those that will continue in industry, rather than dedicate their career to research. This is not to say a PhD can’t work in industry, many do, but rather the practitioner doctorates skew toward more practical knowledge and research, while the Doctor of Philosophy degrees (PhD) skew toward the research and philosophical aspects of a particular field of study. Both require significant research projects (the dissertation) and both can take 3-7 years to complete, based on a multitude of factors.

    UOPX, in fact, has a more stringent dissertation process than many public and private “traditional” schools, primarily because they seem sensitive to their reputation challenges, and want the dissertations to be well-formatted, well-reviewed, and contribute to the body of research knowledge. It is, by far, not a perfect process, however in speaking with many doctoral-degree holders at my job (an Ivy League University), every one of these doctors has told me the doctoral/dissertation process is long, arduous, complicated, frustrating, inconsistent, and an exercise in both academic rigor and perseverance. Thus far, I’m happy with the progress, but know there will be many hoops through which I’ll have to jump to produce a quality research outcome (the dissertation) and complete the degree.

    I agree with the opinions that for-profit schools may need additional regulations, oversight, or some other intervention to ensure the needs of stockholders are not advanced at the expense of students.

    Regarding the validity of degrees, I would agree that (in most cases) if you have no experience, and expect to emerge from an undergrad or grad program from UOPX and assume you’ll be taken seriously, you’re wrong. I don’t view this as anything unusual, as I don’t generally take anyone straight out of school very seriously, as they (for the most part) have no clue how the world, business, or their industry of focus works. This comes with experience and real-world effort applied to real-world problems day in, and day out…not from working in a classroom. There are exceptions, but they are just that…exceptions. I personally know of a UOPX student that completed his MBA degree at UOPX, and is pursuing the same DM degree as I am. He’s easily one of the most motivated and intelligent individuals I’ve ever met, and I asked him specifically why he chose Phoenix instead of a more prestigious school. He could have very easily gone elsewhere, but he chose UOPX. His reasoning was just as I’ve described…it’s more about how you use the knowledge than from where you obtained it. He’s very successful, has held a number of top management jobs, written a book, and hold several patents. A good example of applied knowledge.

    -J

  42. as I’m reading these posts I realize that it depend on the job, or position. I am currently attending University of Phoenix and the courses are not easy at all. I want to pull my hair out many times bit to say that people who choose this school in general are igorant shows how ignorant you all are. I haven’t received the mba yet but I am receiving a promotion mod HR manager for payroll, benefits, and administration. So no one can speak on another’s achievements. I know many people who graduated from harvard, etc and just as dumb in common sense. Speak fromantic your own experiences no one else’s.

  43. Just pick an AACSB school I go to WTAMU-MBA. It is challenging but you will have the satisfaction of the accreditation!! Don’t have to worry about for profit stigma! If you have an undergraduate GPA of over 3.85 you should get accepted with a GMAT score of over 550.

  44. Let’s see. I’m currently deployed overseas and serving in the U.S. Navy. I am an E-8, and I hold various senior leadership positions, some which are equivalent to an GS-12. I recently graduated with my MBA in Science Management from UofP with a 3.7 GPA. UofP for the most part pushes you to learn on your own. Yes, there are professors available, but there were many late days and nights where I would spends 8 hours on a quiz or 5 hours on a paper. My job is extremely demanding, and I’m in charge of 35 command personnel as well as civilians. On top of everything you have to maintain an B average or more, and some days I was wondering if I would actually pass the course because of how demanding it was. From statistics to advance math, all were challenging! I’m glad I went with this school, and it has instilled in my vast managerial knowledge and people skills which is important being a senior leader in the military.

  45. Not getting into the whole “real school” BS (but if anybody knows of a non-Ivy degree that “guarantees” a well-paying job on graduation, please email me), just want give some advice:

    If you truly are someone in a hiring position who refuse to hire an applicant only because of the college they attended, I hope you know a lawyer who went to a “real” school, because you’ve really put your foot in it. Enjoy your law suits!

  46. I am currently attending Kaplan University for my Business Degree. Yes, it is a for-profit and I understand that for-profit schools have a bad rep. I am a full time U.S. Marine Officer who decided that college was a very important goal. I went back and forth between UoP and Kaplan before finally resting on Kaplan. I have friends who attend UoP and enjoy it very much. I would love to have the money and time for Harvard or Stanford, but lets face the truth…not everyone does! I believe that anyone seeking higher education these days is smart for doing so and should be praised for the decision instead of scrutinized for which college they decided on. Good for anyone seeking higher education! Just remember to ensure the credentials of the school are legitimate and yes, UoP is legit!

  47. It is all about accreditation. I earned my doctorate in Management from UoP. UoP business school is fully accredited through ACBSP. Larger schools tend to have the AACSB accreditation. The biggest different between the two accreditations is the amount of money the school puts to research. Each accreditation requires a rigorous process. Profit verse nonprofit is an unfounded argument. My professors taught at the finest and biggest universities in this country and even one from England. So if you think professors from University of Texas, Pepperdine, University of Tulsa, NC State, VA Tech, just to name a few represent terrible schools, then I guess we are all doomed. Do not assume prestige is the only was to earn a quality education. I earned my doctorate because I worked for it!

  48. As someone with a Ph.D. in a physical science discipline, I have to say that I was not too pleased with the University of Phoenix. I took an Environmental Law class that was taught by someone who only had a Bachelor’s degree. Furthermore, this instructor did not seem to know how to write in a coherent manner. Among other things, she seemed to have no idea about where to place a comma. I don’t understand why a person like this should be teaching at any reputable place that is conferring graduate degrees. Furthermore, the grades seemed to be based more on following instructions that on whether the student has any real grasp of the material.

    • Goomah,

      So you base your opinion of the UOPX on one instructor who was inferior to your knowledge base? What an elitist attitude you have. Perhaps you should apply to teach and see if you get any interesting feedback regarding your teaching style. I bet if you did, you would quickly find out that you’re not as perfect as you make yourself out to be…

  49. The University of Phoenix (UOPX) Business school is wonderful. I went to the University of Washington for my undergraduate degree and graduated with a 3.89 GPA. I have worked many years in my field of study before going back to complete my Master’s degree. I was accepted and attended a Master’s program at the University of Washington, but soon dropped it for the UOPX because it was much more convenient to take classes while still working. The UOPX program is much more challenging than I expected, and only the smart and focused get through the program. There are a lot of students who enrolled in the UOPX thinking it would be easy, but they are no longer part of it. Don’t knock the UOPX program unless you try it. Oh, and I see many UOPX graduate credentials on successful career profiles on LinkedIn too.

  50. I have been to both brick-and-mortar University and online school. I earned my double major Bachelor of Science from Kaplan University online, and I found it to be just as every bit challenging and in some cases, even more so than a traditional brick-and-mortar University.

    I went the online route, because I became disabled and it was very difficult to physically go to the campus. A new study by the Department of Education study has come out and said that online school is every bit as reputable and equal in quality to that of Traditional School.

    In some cases, they find that it’s even more challenging and harder, because it takes self-discipline and the ability for a student to buckle down and focus to get their work done.
    dome students need a sit-down environment in order to focus because they don’t have the discipline. One thing employers should know about online college graduates is that they have the ability to take on a goal and work independently on their own and focus on a task to get it done.

  51. I’m a current UoPX doctoral student, pursuing a Doctor of Management in Organizational Leadership. I’ve been in the program about four years now, but about nine months of that was time off due to a job change.

    I think, as with most contentious topics, there’s a middle ground. I was very hesitant to pursue a doctoral degree at a for-profit school, having earned an undergrad and two graduate degrees from very traditional schools. Even in my traditional university work, the modalities varied, and included instruction that was 100% classroom-based, classes that were 100% online, and classes that were of a mixed-modality that incorporated a mix of online and classroom instruction and group project work.

    I think the question of UoPX relates much more to the quality of the education, rather than the modality. Online education (similar to online dating) was once regarded rather poorly, lacking the equivalence of a more traditionally delivered degree. This seems to have changed dramatically, as many traditional non-profit schools now offer many programs 100% online.

    I can only speak on the doctoral program, as I have not pursued a master’s or bachelor’s degree from UoPX. My degree is a professional taught doctorate, similar to a Doctor of Business Administration (DBA), Doctor of Education (Ed.D.), or Doctor of Psychology (PsyD. These terminal degrees involved a significant amount of research, and are targeted more at working professionals that seek applied knowledge to use in their careers. These degrees differ from Doctor of Philosophy (Ph.D.) degrees, in that the Ph.D. degree is generally designed to train an individual to be a researcher as part of their career, and is much more applicable to those seeking specific careers (Industrial and Organizational Psychology, for example), or those that seek an academic career in a college or university.

    I hoped to gain both theoretical and applied knowledge from my doctoral program, as well as conduct a research project (dissertation) that would both contribute to the body of knowledge around a topic, as well as further my effectiveness in my career. I also wanted the flexibility of the online modality, and the ability to start/stop my classes as needed. My experience thus far, with most of my course work completed, and my dissertation in progress, is that the program delivers on its promises. I have gained a plurality of knowledge in a number of areas, and have been trained in the research process and the way in which said research is documented and peer-reviewed. The content has been very worthwhile, and I am able to apply this knowledge to my professional career. The facilitators (and yes, this is the term many colleges and universities are begining to use to replace “teacher” or “instructor”) have fallen on the same bell-curve of quality that I’ve found in every degree I’ve ever completed. A small minority are very poor, for one reason or another, a small minority are outstanding, and the rest are average and perfectly adequate.

    The dissertation process is uniquely UoPX, and that’s because almost all dissertation processes are uniquely tailored to their institution. There are very few standardized aspects of the process. In talking with doctoral students from other, traditional schools, it’s clear that all doctoral students must navigate their university’s unique process, which is often times frustrating and inefficient.

    What I have found in all online courses I’ve taken, regardless of the institution, is that the online modality generally provides a level of independence to the student that isn’t found in the classroom. Conversely, this freedom comes with a cost, and that is the student must exhibit more initiative, time-management, and self-directed participation than in the classroom. I’m not sure the online modality is effective for an 18 year-old high-school graduate seeking a bachelor’s degree; few of us are very disciplined at that age. However, as a mid-career member of the workforce seeking a new career, it may be ideal.

    Overall, I have been happy with what UoPX delivers in the doctoral program I’m pursuing. I tend to be independent and self-directed, so the format has worked well for me. The for-profit nature of the school does lend itself to a different set of goals from the institution’s perspective, as profits are important. For this reason, I do feel that I’ve been in classes with students that probably aren’t ready for the doctoral journey. This is one aspect of the program I do wish they’d adjust. While the doctoral program does eventually cull those that may not be ready for it, it would be more helpful for the student to know this sooner, rather than later, and either get the necessary extra assistance to excel, or choose a different path.

    If I had to do it all over again, I’d absolutely make the same choice in schools, as the flexibility of the program, and the program quality to date, are what I expected. I can say, for all the detractors, that while this is not Harvard or Princeton, the doctoral program is rigorous, and it’s not something an unqualified person could easily traverse. As a hiring manager, I would not (and have not) excluded anyone from employment consideration as a result of their education, whether it was the level of education, the institution they attended, or the modality in which it was delivered. I work in an academic environment, and higher highly technical people. I’ve found that I must consider the entirety of a resume, to include education and experience, in order to make a decision to interview a candidate. For those employers that take a more rigid approach, you will likely miss out on very qualified candidates who’ll I’ll very happily consider in my organization.

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