Class Discussion of Project.

Live Question Tool: Dec520062
 

 

Active Questions
5
votes

Anonymous: Isn’t the logical end of this that you would be against public schools?
     Anonymous: public schools are the black holes of government spending
     Anonymous: Or any subsidy for any service that you don’t personally choose to take advantage of.
     Anonymous: There could be a public good there that the non-parents recognize, as opposed to parental benefits they see as unfair or unnecessary.
     LT: Public school are less controversial since they have a direct, inverse effect on prison spending. It’s just good economics.
     Richard: Doesn’t childcare have a direct inverse correlation to health care and education costs for everyone? (And, maybe, to prison rates, too?)

1:58 pm EST, 5 Dec 

5
votes

Anonymous: Childcare falls disproportionally on women. In many fields women lag behind men because they cannot manage childcare and other child-rearing costs while maintaining a job.
     Anonymous: This is especially true for graduate students and academics. Should we really take childcare subsidies away from these women?
     Anonymous: Yes
     Anonymous: Also particularly true for single women.

1:44 pm EST, 5 Dec 

5
votes

Anonymous: This is not an issue most people are aware of, and it’s not a very sexy issue. How are you going to make us care and mobilize us?
     Anonymous: Yeah, it’s a classic majority/minority issue. The vast majority not only isn’t concerned with it, but probably vehemently disagrees.
     Anonymous: That’s not a bad way to phrase it – the majority is imposing costs on the minority.
     Anonymous: Well, now it sounds like you’re saying the audience should be the Supreme Court. If you’re going to allege a breakdown of representative democracy, then maybe an opinion-mobilizing project isn’t appropriate.
     Anonymous: I think public opinion is responsive to concepts of fairness and bullying
     Anonymous: Not when the public is the bully.

1:45 pm EST, 5 Dec  

4
votes

Anonymous: I’m not sensing a lot of empathy for parents.
     Anonymous: I think the economic/legal discourse here will in no way going to create any empathy among parents who will be net losing benefits…
     Anonymous: Indeed. One option is refusing to frame it as parents v. non-parents. Think of it as an issue where people choose what’s appropriate for them at the time.
     Richard (cont’d): Thus, it need not be people-who-don’t-want-kids on one side, it can be people who don’t have kids yet, who would also choose the non-childcare coverage.

1:57 pm EST, 5 Dec  

Most Recently Submitted Questions
3
votes

Anonymous: are we arguing her premise here, or trying to offer constructive ideas for her project? We could be here all day.

1:56 pm EST, 5 Dec  

1
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Anonymous: How are you disadvantaged? Aren’t you a product of the past expenditures that have been made on children?

1:47 pm EST, 5 Dec  

0
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Anonymous: do parents get anything out of this?

1:45 pm EST, 5 Dec 

3
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Anonymous: You said the organization is just social, but is YOUR project advocacy? And are you advocating to take AWAY support for people with kids?
     Anonymous: I guess it has to be, assuming overall benefits are a zero-sum game.

1:43 pm EST, 5 Dec  

1
votes

Anonymous: Isn’t equality treating different situations differently?
     Richard: Isn’t that what a cafeteria plan does? Everyone gets the benefits that s/he feels best fits his/her situation.
     Anonymous: Maybe, but then those who are producing the ‘public good’ of raising kids don’t end up with dental insurance for themselves, or whatever. So now everybody with teeth is not being treated the same.
     Anonymous: why even offer a cafeteria plan? Just eliminate all benefits and raise salary/wages. Benefits are patriarchal and inefficient.

1:45 pm EST, 5 Dec  

3
votes

Anonymous: But equality based on what? People with kids are dissimilarly situated from people who do not. And as you admit, raising kids is good for society, and therefore a ‘public good’ that others might be responsible to contribute to.
     Anonymous: Did she admit that raising kids is good for society? I think she might state that it is important for people to raise children once they have them but people should not be encouraged to have them.
     Anonymous: somebody has to do it. i’m damn glad my parents did it.
     Anonymous: I wanted to be raised by Shaolin monks.

1:45 pm EST, 5 Dec  

2
votes

Anonymous: are parents really doing the most important job? i find your premise troubling.
     Anonymous: Is this really the place to debate this?
     Anonymous: well, I guess it depends what the other forums are
     Anonymous: I don’t think that’s actually her claim; I think that was an empathic argument.
     Richard: It may not be, but in fact the “parents are doing the most important job” thing was clearly an empathic move, and an effective one.
     Anonymous: Let me rephrase, it is ONE of the most important jobs. Happy?
     Anonymous: I didn’t empathize with it, and it wasn’t an argument
     Anonymous: You weren’t supposed to empathize with it. It was HER empathic statement of the other side’s position. It worked well, I think.
     Anonymous: more seriously, why does empathic argument require that you flatter your opponent?

1:40 pm EST, 5 Dec  

0
votes

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1:38 pm EST, 5 Dec