More Evidence that Hatred of U.S. is due to Overestimation?
In the Israel Essay, under “Why do Muslims hate the United States?”, the following paragraphs seem relevant to this Argentina trip:
As with the preceding question we should step back and ask the more general question “Why does everyone hate the United States?” Everyone hates the U.S. because everything that goes wrong in the world today is the fault of the U.S. Our military consists of 1.5 million highly trained people and tens of thousands of machines capable of getting them very quickly to where they are needed. Yet though we claim to be interested in justice and human welfare we generally don’t bother to act to protect non-citizens. For example, impending genocide in Rwanda elicited the following quote from then-President Bill Clinton: “… I mention it only because there are a sizable number of Americans there and it is a very tense situation. And I just want to assure the families of those who are there that we are doing everything we possibly can to be on top of the situation to take all the appropriate steps to try to assure the safety of our citizens there.” In other words “We could use all of our airpower and troops to stop the Hutus from killing the Tutsis but instead we’re going to airlift American citizens out and then move on to the next issue.” An estimated 1 million people died.
Nobody is going to blame the Rwandan genocide on Ireland. They’ve only got 17,000 troops and a limited number of ships and cargo planes. Nobody is going to blame Denmark, with its 35,000 troops. But the U.S. military is strong enough to intervene anywhere in the world. People can blame, with some justification, anything that makes them unhappy on the U.S.
Ask Joe Foreigner what upsets him most about the U.S. Top on the list is the fact that the U.S. is too interventionist, swaggering cowboy-like with military power into complex international situations. Complaint #2, however, is that the U.S. failed to intervene in a particular situation that is near and dear to Joe’s heart. They hate us because we are too interventionist… except when we’re not inventionist enough. They also hate the U.S. because they’re so weak and their government essentially serves at our government’s pleasure. Consider how annoying it is to be an American voter, knowing that because you don’t have $50 million you don’t have any political power. Imagine how much more annoyed you’d be if you were a citizen of one of the European nations. Not only are your politicians corrupted by the local rich but if your society wants to do something that is contrary to a sufficiently important U.S. desire, the U.S. military might invade and turn your country into a possession, ruled by a colonial viceroy.
Joe Third World Foreigner has even more reason to hate the U.S. than Joe European Foreigner. Most Third World governments have no plausible claim to legitimacy. They have power because they seized power and because the U.S. has chosen not to overthrow them. If Joe Third World Foreigner hates his rulers, who are presumably skimming whatever they can take out of his pocket, it is only natural for Joe to hate the U.S. for enabling his rulers to remain in power.
In just a few days here I’ve encountered several Argentines who aren’t fans of the U.S. government. For starters, these folks are angry because they blame their suffering under the military dictatorship on the U.S., which trained some of their officers. I asked if they really thought it was possible for the U.S. government to control what happened half a world away. Indeed they did. What about Castro? I asked. The U.S. has been trying to get rid of him for 40 years and hasn’t managed to do it. True, an Argentine responded, but the U.S. has succeeded in making Cuba ridiculously poor. Cuba, of course, is free to trade with and accepts tourism from the entire European Union. So it doesn’t seem plausible to expect a U.S. trade embargo to cripple an ambitious hard-working people. And most of the rest of the Caribbean is extremely poor as well, despite not suffering from any animosity from the U.S. government.
To an American this image of the U.S. government as omnipotent, right down to the smallest details of how other countries are administered seems odd. We live admidst evidence of our government’s impotence to achieve its goals. After 40 years of the War on Poverty the streets are filled with homeless. After 20 years of Reagan’s stepped-up War on Drugs it is as easy to party as ever. The FAA tried to build itself a new air traffic control computer system and the project went $billions over budget and more than a decade beyond its original deadline. How could a government this incompetent in its own country prevent a determined group of foreigners from educating themselves, working hard, building industries, and exporting their goods to Asia and the European Union?
Jeremy
December 23, 2003 @ 2:02 pm
I think it’s slightly naive to imagine that the current spate of sabre wielding is motivated by US Imperialism. What part of Dubya’s CV suggests that he thinks in terms beyond his own wallet? There’s gold in them thar hills, in Iraq (Cheney and Halliburton, and hence the Republican party have their snouts firmly in the trough) and also, less widely reported, in North Korea.
And who do we find with open pockets? Why, it’s Saddam’s old pal Donald Rumsfeld!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/korea/article/0,2763,952289,00.html
http://www.abb.ch/GLOBAL/ABBZH/abbzh252.nsf/583d1e2a205b6843c1256bc9003f3f84/eded0616131e28b2c125675200268fe6/$FILE/ABB_OR.pdf
Here is the official press release from ABB itself in 2000:
_______________________________________________________________
Thursday January 20, 9:04 am Eastern Time
Company Press Release
ABB to deliver systems, equipment to North Korean nuclear plants
US$ 200 million in orders awarded under multi-government framework
agreement
ZURICH, Switzerland–(BUSINESS WIRE)–January 20, 2000–ABB, the
global technology group, said today it has signed contracts to
deliver equipment and services for two nuclear power stations at
Kumho, on the east coast of North Korea. The contracts, with a value
of US$ 200 million, were awarded by HANJUNG (Korea Heavy Industries
and Construction Co. Ltd.) and KOPEC (Korea Power Engineering Corp.).
The two nuclear plants are being supplied to North Korea under a
Supply Agreement with KEDO (Korean Energy Peninsula Development
Organization), a consortium formed in 1995 by the governments of the
United States, Japan, South Korea and the European Union. KEDO is to
provide the stations under the Agreed Framework signed by the U.S.
and North Korea in 1994.
Under the terms of the contracts, ABB will provide engineering,
design and components for the two 1,000-megawatt (Mwe) light water
nuclear steam supply systems. The systems are an advanced version of
ABB’s System 80
Abner Delacroix
December 23, 2003 @ 9:50 pm
I think the more successful the US is the more you guys will foam at the mouth and hate the US. The fact that you bring up chickenshit examples of Rumsfeld being on the board of ABB while he was CEO of Gilead Science proves my point. Ranting and wailing about the IMF and the World Bank just adds further exposition that we’ve got some real world class cranks here. Not to mention the Serb who criticizes the US when he supports ethnic cleansing in Kosovo. Ciao, ya’ll.
Glenn
December 24, 2003 @ 3:13 am
Its not antiwar or even anti-intervention, but dressing up intervention in Iraq as “to free its people” is really puting lipstick on a pig. Dare I suggest the $15B rebuilding contract for Haliburton, the oil “partnerships” (that would be an interesting one sided negotiating table) that will be set up between Iraq and american oil interests. I am all for a very strong agressive interventional stance on all ruthless dictatorships to go after before Saddam (no tear in my eye when he is executed). If freedom is what it is about then there are some triple AAA grade dictatorships. Lets look at North Korea, they routinely kill their people, any hint at discontent is stomped on with ruthless and cruel violence (nice to have one of your children murdered in front of you as a warning for making a complaint), corrupt to its core, millions staved for no reason other than mismanagement, they have a crazy leader (eg. terrorist act order directly by him was the bombing of a Korean airliner killing 115), they have the bomb and missiles to put it on, plus all the usual chemical/bio weapons of mast destruction, and they have no oil.
I am sure in 200 years the North Korean dictatorship when the full terrible truth is revealed will be remembered as one of the worst or the worst of the past century. At least Kim Jong-il wasnt installed by the US.
If the world was fair and Bush walked the talk then he would be on TV, giving Kim Jong-il and his family 48 hours to get out or face the consequences. If there ever was a case for a decapitation then here is one on a plater. Pity for the people there is no oil in North Korea…maybe a few chickens but they probably are starving.
Eugene Zaikonnikov
December 24, 2003 @ 5:16 am
> Most Third World governments have no plausible claim to legitimacy.
A bogus argument. If you dig the history deep enough, you’ll find that *any* government has no plausible claim to legitimacy. Think for a while how the U.S. government got there.
Abner Delacroix
December 24, 2003 @ 11:42 am
Did you know that Seoul is within artillary range of N. Korea? did you know that
N. Korea has 11,000 cannons aimed at S. Korea? Did you know that the US spent untold
billions of dollars to build S. Korea’s economy? Did you know that S. Korea does not want
N. Korea disturbed in any way? Did you know that Japan has a vested interest as well? As well as China? Moron.
Eugene, it is evident that you do not know democracy and the republic from which it springs forth, that you do not know inalienable rights, and that you do not know American history, its people, culture and institutions. In short, you are as ignorant as can be and yet you are expounding on something that you obviously know nothing about in a public forum. Your arrogance and ignorance is breath taking, sir.
Jeremy
December 24, 2003 @ 2:15 pm
“Did you know that Seoul is within artillary range of N. Korea? did you know that N. Korea has 11,000 cannons aimed at S. Korea?” etc etc
But still a good customer for ABB’s nuclear power plants, so keep quiet and back to the lobbying, Donald Rumsfeld.
“Eugene, it is evident that you do not know democracy and the republic from which it springs forth” “Your arrogance and ignorance is breath taking, sir”
Err … right … tell us about democracy springing forth from the US – how long has it been since blacks got the vote? Longer than the democracy in, say, Iceland, or Turkey for that matter?
“Your arrogance and ignorance is breath taking, sir”
Pot, kettle …
Glenn
December 25, 2003 @ 7:26 am
“Did you know that Seoul is within artillary range of N. Korea? did you know that N. Korea has 11,000 cannons aimed at S. Korea? Did you know that the US spent untold billions of dollars to build S. Korea’s economy? Did you know that S. Korea does not want N. Korea disturbed in any way? Did you know that Japan has a vested interest as well? As well as China? Moron.”
Yes, I have been to Korea, and China and Japan.
I wouldnt want “vested” interests in Japan or China being disturbed, a million dead hear a million dead there pretty soon you run out of integers and it doenst matter any more. Lets face every country in Asia has got out a map and drew a red circle out from the North Korea according to the km range of the missile systems.
Ben
December 30, 2003 @ 11:44 am
As an American, I don’t think the issue should ever be whether people hate us or hate our country or not. If we based policy on trying to maximize popularity the we would really be hypocritical and contradictory and all of things complained about above. Besides, political opinion is so very fickle. Most of this so-called hatred seems to be politically biased.
Not much has changed in US policy since five years ago when Clinton was lobbing tomahawks at Iraq without the approval of the UN. Perhaps foreigners preferred that we were ineffectual then, and perhaps they preferred Clinton’s domestic agenda to Bush, although they are nearly identical. Let’s not forget the delight of the foreign press in Clinton’s dalliances with Monica. No one ever said we were hated then, we were too good a joke. Maybe people liked that, and are nostalgic for that now.
The US media has lately been so busy quoting worriers and hand-wringers, lamenting our “loss of clout” with foreign governments, because they “hate us” and “hate Bush”, they have failed to notice we are actually much more respected now. Syria and Iran are being very careful, Arafat has been largely marginalized, and the very Europeans who flipped us the bird at the UN a year ago are on the verge of doing precisely what we are asking of them.
It will still take decades for the US to undo the mistakes and compromises that were necessary during the Cold War, such as supporting dictators that were anti-communist because larger things were at stake at the time. But I think we are on the right track to being a largely benevolent and beneficial force in the world. This will eventually be noticed.
Eugene Zaikonnikov
January 9, 2004 @ 11:53 am
> Eugene, it is evident that you do not know democracy and the republic from which it springs forth, that you do not know inalienable rights, and that you do not know American history, its people, culture and institutions.
Abner, I don’t see how that follows from my post. American revolt was in clear breach of the British Empire’s law, which in turn had some very questionable rights on most of its territory, and each of that territories, in turn.. I think the idea is clear, and frankly, not any new at all. But rather than providing a counterargument, you start your infantile flag/cherry pie/chevrolet line combined with ad hominem attack.
Sad.
Harrison Bolter
January 9, 2004 @ 7:39 pm
What seems really unfortunate is that the gentleman who has taken it upon himself to defend America resorts to insults and name-calling. As an American myself, I strongly disagree with a great deal that has been done in the name of my “security”, especially within the past two years or so. Does that make me anti-American? I am saddened by the comeback of a particularly vicious trend in U.S. political culture: “My Country, Right or Wrong.” Our current President put it thus: “You’re either with us or against us.” Great. No room for compromise, consensus or discussion. Bush & Co. have a monopoly on the Truth, and God help anyone who gets in their way. Well, Mr. Delacroix, that is as good an example of black & white thinking as you’ll find anywhere…
Dan Pellerin
January 10, 2004 @ 11:46 pm
In reading this discussion I cannot help but think that it is great to live in countries where we can discuss, dialogue, disagree, suggest, praise and criticize our leaders and governments without recrimination or be visited by enforcement agencies. I may not agree with all I read in the posts, but I have to thank those who presented information to allow me to research and to enlighten myself on the subject. Being a Canadian married to an American I do have to say that the people of both nations are some of the most generous people around as are most of my friends in Europe and across the world. It is my hope that more and more of us become educated to the effects our actions and governments have on others, be it good or bad.. Thanks for the great discussion.
Glenn
January 17, 2004 @ 8:48 pm
Lets just hope after “Discuss, dialog, disagree, suggest, praise and criticize or governments and leaders” the most important thing of all happens: ACTION. You dont need the enforcement agencies if you feel safe in your castle and you just ignore the problems and just do as you please. Whilst a world dominated by Bush is preferable to a world dominated by Sadam types, few would disagree that this is sub-optimal.